Best Jurassic Park/World Movie?

"There was nothing like it beforehand and there's been nothing like it since then."

I may agree with the latter part of that statement, but in what way(s) are you referring to nothing like it beforehand?

Well XenoRaptor,

Jurassic Park,

HAS NO FLAWS

KoldWarKid,
Largely in terms of the special effects and how they were introduced in tandem with the drama. CG had been used before, but never to this extent and never so successfully.

For example, the introduction of the Brachiosaurus is one of cinema's finest moments. The movie had built up to that point, playing with audience anticipation, and the reveal was something of a reflexive operation by the film makers. I think a lot of the kids on this forum are too young to recall, but the look on the characters' faces were mirrored by the looks of the audiences in theaters. (Me among them.)

A new boundary of visual effects had been breached in that moment, but the magic was in Spielberg's trademark build-up, the characters' reactions and Williams' iconic music. The scene changed everything for blockbusters, certainly, but out-of-the-blocks it showed how CG should be used--As a tool and not an answer. There are similar moments with various tones throughout the film.

It was only as effective as the dramatic weight it was given and that was absolutely a first in ways that Cameron's The Abyss and Terminator 2: Judgment Day didn't quite capture a few years prior. (And I'd argue he still doesn't understand the concept after Avatar.)

GMan,
I would agree with your assessment of how the effects were used and I think they are incredibly iconic because of that and also impactful because of the subject matter. Who doesn't love dinosaurs?

I'd disagree with you on T2 though. I sat, as did others in the theater, at awe at what Cameron did regarding the T-1000. I never looked at it as a way to show off CG, but really as a means to do something that quite honestly hadn't been done before, albeit in a very different way than JP did. It was no less mind-blowing and impressive to this viewer, and believe me, as a dinosaur lover from way back, I was just as taken by JP as the next person.

So, I think both utilized it incredibly well but again in different ways. I'm not going to compare the two and say they're on equal footing; that would be disingenuous. JP is right where it belongs among films but I have to give T2 it's props as being a pioneer in the use of CG to really push the limits of effects and adding a sense of wonder to a film as a storytelling device. JP did take it up several notches in using it to create living breathing believable dinosaurs, from which we're still trying to pick up our jaws.

KoldWarKid,
As much as I truly love Terminator 2: Judgment Day, much of its CG was little more than an extension of what Cameron did in The Abyss--Which I would argue was closer to the dramatic unison I mentioned than T2.

No doubt people, including myself, were in certain awe with the T-1000, but immediately after the movie everyone from audiences to critics were drawing comparisons to The Abyss. Before Jurassic Park, CG seemed to be the most believable when it was creating inspiration for The Secret World of Alex Mack. After Jurassic Park the sky was the limit.

this thread seems to have gone from what you think is the best JP movie to an argument about CGI

CarnoFTW, JW was severely hindered by its flaws

and CGI has really gotten bad since Jurassic Park

^It's not exactly an argument about CG or how good it was, but a look at the advent of CG and the proper way to use it.

In any case, CG has become less believable since Jurassic Park, I agree, but I think we could dive further than to simply call it bad. CG has become something of a fast-food factory and overused. It's not really an art form anymore, but rather a answer to every executive's problem. As a result its over-saturated Western cinema to the point where its lost its, 'wow' factor.

@GMan
True. It was definitely an extension of what was in the Abyss. My only point being that it was a progression from the Abyss - T2 - JP. Each step forward in that progression had the creative team asking “Ok. We did that. Can we do this?” The creative team at ILM (as you know) were tasked with taking dinos to the next level. Initially (as you also know), the discussion was to render them using stop motion. Spielberg wasn't satisfied with the results, so the genesis of the organic CG character had begun and really set the bar.

I’m merely giving T2 and the Abyss their props as far as getting that ball rolling. Yes, CG had been done before but T2 especially, got creative minds thinking of the possibilities.

@Lord Tyrant
This is not an argument about CG. GMan and I are totally on the same page about JP and it’s place in cinema, and its sequels. It was the first movie to introduce living breathing characters via this technique (and practical effects), but it was in the hands of Spielberg that it became something even more. Cameron is nowhere near the director Spielberg is, but Cameron is a visionary when it comes to visuals, design aesthetics and imagination. If he wasn’t a director, he’d be a very successful illustrator. The man is very talented and imaginative. Avatar is a gorgeous movie (again, his vision), but it’s nothing unique as a story.

Stan Winston and his talented group did the practical effects for JP. He was also Cameron’s go-to guy for practical effects on his films. They had a long history together.

As far as CG being worse, I disagree. It’s just used as a device a lot more and people have gotten a bit lazy relying on it too much, with varying degrees of success. GMan is not a fan of Peter Jackson’s King Kong. I happen to love it. It came out in 2005. I still think Kong is one of the greatest CG characters ever created. The thing with Kong (as GMan will also attest to), was that he was a giant gorilla. Well, we all know what a gorilla looks like. They totally nailed the look, but it’s in the nuances of his facial expressions and body language, little things, that especially impress me. WETA’s done some amazing CG and practical effects work since they broke through. They actually do quite a bit of practical effects, from within their WETA Workshop division. There are plenty of other very good to excellent CG examples that have been done since ’93, so I wouldn’t say it’s gotten worse.

Sometimes discussions start at a certain point and end up somewhere else. That’s the fun of having a discussion, right? But as far as the topic at hand, I think we’re all in agreement about that.

Well Gman Jurassic World had horrible CGI

I absolutely agree Terminator 2 got the ball rolling, but I consider the quality/possibility-gap between T2 and Jurassic Park a vastly larger gulf than the gap between The Abyss and T2. This isn't to slam those films' achievements, but to audiences The Abyss and T2 showed what CG was comfortably capable of. Jurassic Park showed us what was thought as impossible as bringing dinosaurs back to life. After being told completely digital dinosaurs might be possible, even Spielberg, with all his imagination and innovation, simply said, "Prove it." As you know, skepticism lost.

KoldWarKid,

I thought that Kong 2005 had pretty good CGI.  Same with Godzilla 2014.

Lord Tyrant,
I agree. Kong had some ups and downs with some of the effects, and I'm sure if you had a sit down with the WETA Digital team they'd love to have a do over for some of them. You work the best you can within your time limits and budget and some things fall short. I think they spent most of their resources on the star, and I think on the whole they did a great job making him an actual character that happened to be a 25 foot tall silverback gorilla. 

When JP came out, my first thought was "I'd love to see Kong remade with this technology." I had to wait a while but I eventually got my wish.

G14 had some excellent effects as well. Although I haven't seen Shin Godzilla yet, I've seen many of the Godzilla scenes, and on the whole they did a pretty nice job on the CG; some of it good enough for an American-made film.

^I never said all CGI was bad, but a lot of it.  Like the CG in the Star Wars prequels

Gman I never said the Spinosaurus was the biggest problem.  That title goes to Amanda Kirby

Actually I found the Kirbys interesting because they were a divorced couple coming together for the sake of their child. Were they bright about the situation? Well, no. But in their defense they were the characters that had the least idea of what they were walking in to.

Tea Leoni did an excellent job with her material. It's not her best work, but the fact is she's the kind of actress who can make lemonade out of lemons. She was given a lot of blase' moments, but she was believable as a determined mother fighting to get her kid back. Any other actress might have played the material a little too hysterically.

Honestly, I'm more frustrated about Grant...

^But she screams. Into a megaphone.  On an island.  Full of Goddamn dinosaurs.

^I'll copy and paste what I previously stated:

"Were they bright about the situation? Well, no. But in their defense they were the characters that had the least idea of what they were walking in to."

It's not enough to take away from the work she did to keep the character strong willed and determined--Especially later in the movie.

Grant... however, got suckered by money again. And knew exactly where they were going. Whether or not he was convinced they weren't going to land is irrelevant. The ethical dilemma is something he monstrously failed at.

I like JP3 the best because of the spinosaurus and I have accepted that 70% of the time a Rex will beat a spino in the real world but if the Rex and spino did not fight in JP3 and then teamed up to fight the indominus in JW, would there be more cooperation between spino fans and Rex fans?